The Art of Talent with Tim Packer
[00:00:00]
Aicila: Welcome to Business. As Unusual, have you ever wondered what it takes to completely transform your career and build a wildly successful business on your own terms? Today I'm delighted to welcome Tim Packer, a celebrated Canadian artist whose journey is truly unusual.
Tim walked away from a stable career as a police detective to chase his lifelong dream building a thriving multimillion dollar art business that's helped thousands of artists. Grow. Tim works to demystify success in the art world. Breaking down what actually works from mindset to marketing to prove that the myth of you either have talent or you don't, holds no power.
So welcome to the show, Tim.
Tim: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Aicila: I'm excited to have you here. And I, um, I am, I was. You obviously have a painting behind you. For those of you, uh, who are not seeing this, and this is one of, uh, Tim's paintings. I was looking at your, uh, website earlier this morning, and I, I love the way the light, um, I think it's a light dusting.
It was one of the top [00:01:00] ones. The sun just looks so amazing. I didn't know you could paint sun like that.
Tim: Yeah, that's kind of become my hallmark. Is the sun coming through the trees? I.
Aicila: yeah, it's, uh, it's beautiful. Uh, so I, I sort of. The first question may not be the best entry question, but I'm really curious how you feel being a detective helped you in your art career. Because I, I expect there were some things that were really useful, um, but maybe not so.
Tim: it actually was. So, yeah, so when I left, I was a detective in the commercial crime unit, which is the fraud squad. So it, it involved doing a lot of meticulous research. And really kind of putting together pieces of a puzzle. And when I decided to pursue my career as an artist again. I looked at it basically the same way I, I just looked at it, okay, there are a lot of people who have done this, uh, and what have they done?
And so I really, I was just voracious about learning everything I could learn about, about not only art and creating art, but the business of being an artist.
Aicila: Hmm.[00:02:00]
Tim: and I started seeing these common patterns of, you know, these are the things that successful people did, and these are the things that people who were struggling were doing. Uh, and I use that. Kind of for my own path. Uh, and then, and, and that worked out well for me. And then the other thing that, that policing gave me, um, was just showing up. Uh, that's the, the number one. You know, the thing that separates those who are successful and those who aren't is just showing up. And for artists it means showing up in front of your easel, like every day to paint whether you want to or not. And the police force was like. I don't think there's very many careers where it's that strict. Like you would get docked three hours pay if you were one minute late. parade, and if it happened three times in a year, you got brought up on police act charges.
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: So it was just really ingrained that you show up doing what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to be doing it all the time.
Uh, and I think for a lot of artists that's a problem. There's this myth that. We're only gonna paint [00:03:00] when we're inspired. Um, and one of my favorite, uh, thick quotes is from Chuck Close, one of, probably one of my favorite artists of the 20th century. He said like, inspiration is for amateurs and dilletantes. Professionals just get up and go to work every day. Uh, and so those two things. Have really, really helped me and even as I've moved more now into like social media, my YouTube, um, courses and now my online courses and publishing my own work, that whole kind of background I had as a detective, which is kind of being able to investigate and find out what are all the things I need to learn and need to master. Who, and where do I go to to get these? And then kind of putting a plan together to, to actually get you to your desired objective. Um, and that's worked really well and that's what I try. Try to institute in my art academy, uh, and with my book is putting together a plan for people that there's, you know, there's, it's not magic,
Aicila: Mm-hmm. It's not magic.
Tim: we all [00:04:00] tend to think it, it
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: but there are definite things you can do and there's a definite order. To getting the best out of it too. Like you don't teach trigonometry to three to grade three students, right? 'cause they're not ready yet.
Aicila: Right.
Tim: it's kind of the same thing with art. There's, there's a, there's a logical progression of different skills and concepts, uh, to master in a logical order.
And if you do that, you'll actually fast forward the process. So.
Aicila: That I, I do, I feel like I've experienced that in a variety of places. That there are, there is, there is honestly a craft to most things,
Tim: Mm-hmm.
Aicila: there is a difference between like, I cook, I'm a functional cook, I'm a decent cook. My son is a chef.
Tim: Yeah.
Aicila: he, that is a very different thing, like the, the things that he does to make sure he's creating the desired outcome, which is a specific flavor profile and look and experience for the person [00:05:00] eating it. Whereas I'm gonna make sure that you've got something, you know, we'll serve your biological needs and probably not taste so bad. And it's not gonna be the same tomorrow as it was last week. Like, I'm just gonna do it. Well, however, and both are fine. But I think understanding the difference, like if I was gonna make that my career, I would have to move more into that mentality of it being a craft as opposed to I'm just getting it done today.
Tim: Exactly. And with art, that's the problem because, I mean, I, I liken it to golf. That, you know, there, there are millions of golfers out there that do this as a, as a pastime, and some of them are very, very good. Even, even just the amateurs and hobbyists. Uh, but there's a very different kind of dynamic between playing golf. Where it's just your, your pastime and playing on the PGA tour, and there's very different things that are required to get there. The nice thing about golf is it comes with a score. Right. So we we're not able to delude ourself that, oh, I could go out and, [00:06:00] and beat Rory McElroy. The problem with painting is it doesn't come with a score. Um, and so there are a lot of people that I would liken to, you know, like even, even, I have a friend of mine, he won the, um, the Ontario Senior Championship and he competes in the Canadian, um, senior championship. He's, but he's an amateur. This is still just a pastime for him that he pays to do. Um, but he knows he's not good enough to actually go out and make a living as a golfer. The problem is in art, there's a lot of people who are two or three handicap painters or 15 handicapped painters who think, you know, they've read the thing, they've read the thing from Malcolm, um, Gladwell about the 10,000 hours, and it's kinda like, you know, I hear that all the time from people. It's like, well, I've been painting my whole life, so I should be able to earn a living from this. And it's like, no, it's 10,000 hours dedicated towards improving your craft. It's not 10,000 hours of pushing paint around.
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: I've golfed for over 10,000 hours. I'm still an [00:07:00] 18 handicap, which I was when I was 16 years old. 'cause I just enjoy going out and playing. Mediocre golf.
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: a lot of artists out there that enjoy painting, mediocre paintings, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when they then think that they can create a good living from painting just. paintings, right? Because there's millions of artists out there creating nice paintings. Um, and there's a whole other level that you need to get to if you wanna actually create a good living from your art.
And, and the the thing about it that, that I'm, my mission kind of in life now is, is kind of spreading the word to those artists that it's possible to get there. Talent is not something you were given or
Aicila: Okay.
Tim: It's not some magical gift. It's simply the sum total of your skills, knowledge, creativity, and experience, and you can improve and increase all of these things.
The problem is most artists, they work for a little bit of time to improve [00:08:00] until they get nice work that the odd person might wanna buy. Then they spend the rest of their career trying to create a business around that just, moderately competent, nice work. Um, rather than just staying in that mode of increasing your skills, pushing your creativity, really mastering the concepts till you can get to the point where you're creating work where people don't go, oh gee, that's nice.
They go, oh my God, I have to have that. And like, they just get out their wallets.
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: that's, and I've seen that, that's what happened to me. I actually gave up on the dream. When I was 21 years old, 'cause I'd worked in the, as a graphic designer for two years, kind of doing entry level, kind of mind-numbing work.
Got laid off three separate times in that two year period. Um, and I saw people around me who were much more talented than I was and I just thought, well. I don't have it. This is never gonna happen. And the Toronto police force was hiring and [00:09:00] so I thought, well, it's time for a steady job. Uh, paycheck and a pension. And it wasn't until I was in my thirties that I really, um, was first exposed to the idea of the growth mindset. And that, you know, your talent is not fixed. Your talent is simply the sum total of all of these things. And I, and I didn't wanna believe it. Um, which is kind of crazy, and I didn't wanna believe it because I thought if this was true, then I'd given up on the dream of the thing I loved to do, a job that I liked
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: was, that I was good at. Um. And, and I didn't wanna believe that I'd made that, that big of a mistake and kind of my life plan. But then a little voice in the back of my head just kept saying, well, what if, what if they're right? What if this is possible? Um, and so I just decided I'm gonna live my life for a year. though I believe in this whole growth mindset thing. Um, and one of the things I realized about it is, you know, you, again, that whole idea of identifying what are, what are the skills or the knowledge or the concepts that I'm [00:10:00] really deficient in right now, that if I mastered them, that would have a huge impact and everything I do going forward. And so identified for me that it was composition.
I do not, like I knew composition was a thing. But I was probably, I probably had the least amount just of intuitive sense of composition of anyone I ever met in terms of the way that we arrange things and, which is really weird because now that's my, kind of my thing, that's what I'm known for, is being a master of composition and being able to teach it. Um, but I think the reason I teach it so well is. was totally clueless when I started out.
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: but I also realized that I needed to be consistent, right? That whole idea of almost like working out, you know, you can, you can go to the gym once every three months and work out for eight hours. It's just gonna be painful and not
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: results.
But if you go three times a week for half an hour at the end of the year, the results would be amazing. So I started doing that. I scheduling my painting time first, almost like it was a, a [00:11:00] work session. And then scheduling my, the rest of my life around that. And within a year. It was amazing.
Like I had gotten into a couple jury shows. I'd won an award, I'd sold some paintings. My work had improved incredibly, and I was just hooked. And then within three years, my wife went from saying to me at one point, oh, I'm really proud of all this. Success you're having as an artist, but please don't ever come to me and tell me you want to quit your job to pay full time. Um, and that was at the end of that first year. Um, and then two years later, she actually said to me, I just had a show that was very successful. I'd been elected to a couple national arts organizations. I had a, a pile of commissions lined up to do. And my wife said to me, I think we need to talk, not about if you leave the police force the paint full time, but when you leave,
Aicila: Oh, that's ugly.
Tim: and you could have knocked me over with a feather when she said that. And so that was in the fall of 1999.
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: thought, well, with [00:12:00] the, uh, the new millennium coming, that was perfect timing. So I went home, I went home for Christmas, vacation, uh, at the end of 1999. And at the end of my holidays was my effective, uh. Resignation dates. So, and that's the scariest thing I've ever done in my life.
And people ask me on the police force, what's the scariest thing you ever did? It is like quitting my job and walking away from my pension, um, with a seven and 5-year-old at home and, uh, trying to make a living as an artist. Um, but it turns out to be one of the best decisions I ever made.
Aicila: Yeah. Well, and, and you had, you had like some, you had some external indications that it was an option, which I, I do think is important. I, I definitely strongly believe that it, that we are more fulfilled when we're doing those things that we're passionate about. And I also. Recognized as a pragmatic side to life.
No matter, no matter how much you love what you're doing, if you cannot meet your other [00:13:00] obligations or your, your basic human needs, that's, that's gonna, that's gonna tear the dream down a little bit. So you have to find that balance between. Passion and pragmatism, and I love that. I love that you were able to do that.
I, I think that's a, and and to see the ways in which your effort, 'cause I do think that's the other part. People will have a dream and they're like, oh, it's gonna all work out. Very magical thinking and, and it is magical. But part of the magic is the work.
Tim: And, and that whole idea that you just touched on, I mean, uh, I love Simon Sinek talks about the infinite game, right?
Aicila: Uh,
Tim: that, and that being an artist is an infinite game. The whole, the whole, the whole reason why I believe someone would want to become a full-time professional artist is you love painting more than anything else.
And you wanna be able to get up every day and do that. there's like three options, right? You could win the Powerball. You could marry a wealthy spouse who's very supportive, or you can actually figure out a way to earn a decent living from [00:14:00] doing what you do. But one of the most important things is that, again, that whole idea of the infinite game, the, the, the only reason we play is so that we can keep on playing. And that idea that you never make a decision. That could take you outta the game if it doesn't work out. Um, and so for me, yeah, I didn't just decide one day I'm, I'm gonna quit the police force and do this. I'd, I'd had about four years of really dedicated effort where things were happening. And like I say, I'd, I'd gotten the feedback, I'd gotten sales, but even then it, it wasn't like. Well, let's just cross our fingers and hope, like I actually set myself up to work for the last few years in the Commercial Crime unit, um, because that was a, like, I, I got the month long computer crime course at the RCMP college, uh, with the And so like I had a skill set. That was very, very in demand in the private sector, in the corporate world. Um, we were losing probably four or five detectives a year [00:15:00] that were, that were doing what I did, quitting and cashing in their pension, but not to paint. They were going to big corporations to head up their corporate security. So I knew that if this art thing didn't work out, wasn't gonna starve. I could get another job.
And my wife also had a very good job. So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I don't recommend anybody. Put their, their house or their family's livelihood at risk or whatever to kind of chase this dream. It's like test, a big believer. You test first, uh, in small ways and
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: on feedback, you kind of, you kind of inch your way along.
So when I, when I made the decision to quit the police force. We had pr pretty strong indicators that, okay, that, that not only would I be able to figure this out, um, but that, that I was already partway there. And I also had the motivation that whole I thing I mentioned earlier too, about having a supportive SP spouse. That can be a good thing, but it can be a bit of a curse because just kind of blind [00:16:00] support. It kind of kills that, that, that kind of enthusiasm and the need to succeed. Right. Um, I believe there's a, there, big motivator for me is the fear of failure and
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: fail and putting myself on the hook. And so when my wife and I had that conversation, it, it was also followed by, you know, she said, I don't, this isn't just because I support you and want you to be fulfilled. She said, this is because I think this might be in our family's best long-term economic. Interest and as long as that's a possibility. gonna support this, but you need to tell me now, like before you quit, that if it ever becomes clear, this isn't in our best interest, you'll put on a suit and get a job in corporate security. So I always had that in the back of my mind that this was not just about me finding my flow state and creating work that I loved.
It was to find a way that I actually could create a good living from my art. and I think that. That was [00:17:00] one of the big motivators, um, that really pushed me, that led to my success.
Aicila: Yeah, I that, I think that's wise to, to recognize that whole picture and to, and obviously understand yourself in that, in what motivates you in that way. Do you have an example of a, a tip that you offer to an artist that you could sort of demonstrate in this moment, something that people could relate to?
Yes.
Tim: Yeah, so some, so if someone's really serious about their art, um, and whether it's just as a hobby that, you know, they want to, to just, you know, get as good as they can get at, um, or whether they, you know, they wanna participate in, you know, one art festival a year or whatever, or if they actually have the same dream that I had, which is to make a living from your art. The number one thing I can tell people is. You have to paint three times a week, because learning is cumulative. And I see all kinds of people, they go in, in spurts, they'll, you know, they won't paint for six months and then they'll take a workshop and [00:18:00] then they'll paint for that weekend and then they won't paint again for three months.
And, and again, it's just like going to the gym. Because what happens is while you're immersed in that you're actually learning and improving, but then you go. Even a week, two weeks without painting, and the rest starts to build up
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: of a sudden you come back to paint again. Now you've gotta work to get yourself back to where you were when you went on that, you know, that three day painting workshop, it might take you two or three days to get back there. Whereas if you're painting three times a week, even if it's only for an hour and a half, two hours. Every time you're coming to, to sit down and at your easel or stand at your easel and pain, you are still fresh from your last session. So it just, you're, you just continually improve. And then the other thing is, if at all possible, if you can have a place set up where your work is there ready and you don't need, um, most of us start on the kitchen table.
Right. And so, or the dining room [00:19:00] table. And that means that like five o'clock, okay, it's time to put all your stuff away because dinner's coming. Um, but if you have to spend a half an hour setting up and a half an hour cleaning up after every time you go to paint, then you're not even gonna do it unless you've got four or five hours.
Whereas if you can have a small corner of a room where you have your stuff set up, you can. You can sit down and paint in an hour, an hour and a half now becomes valuable time to paint in. So I think the whole thing of, of painting three times a week and having a place set up where you can just come and sit down and get to work, that's huge because it showing up is, I think Woody Allen said that, that that's, you know, 80, 80% of the secret of success is just showing up when you're supposed to show up.
So that's, that's one thing I would say.
Aicila: That's, that's really great advice and or great tips. I. So you've changed a little bit. Obviously you're very, you're financially successful, you get to paint, you paint beautiful things, and now I you also teach artists. Is that, [00:20:00] uh, is that the next phase? What does success look like for you at this point?
Because it seems like you've achieved a lot of the things you set out to achieve.
Tim: Yeah, I, I mean, I'm way, I became way more successful as an artist. I ever dreamed of. I mean, my goal was to, you know, if I could ever make the same amount of money that I would've made on pension. Um, then I would've been happy. Um, but it went, the only time there, there, it's a bit of a complicated story
Aicila: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tim: the journey. So, um, it, it, it kind of started, so I left the police force in 2000, in 2015. Um, I was having a show at a very upscale gallery in Toronto, and it was like the movie version. Of an artist having a show. So the gallery, it, it was right down in Yorkdale, which is like the glitzy area, downtown Toronto with all the high end shops.
And the gallery closed at five o'clock. Um, but the, but was reopening at seven for my solo show. [00:21:00] So at, at five o'clock I was there at the gallery and I set up an easel in the front window of the gallery. So I was there painting, um, in the front of the gallery waiting for the. For the, the show to open. And like around 6, 6 30 people started lining up.
Um, and by seven o'clock there was a lineup down the street and the doors opened. You know, people came in, there was someone playing live music. There was waiters walking around with trays of wine, and the red dots were going up as painting sold. And I was just kind of like, and I'm thinking I'm just some dumb copper who,
Aicila: Right.
Tim: how, how did this happen to me? And, and I realized, and it had already been a very good year, and I realized as I was kind of. Just mentally calculating this, like I was gonna make over a quarter million dollars that year from the sale of my arc, and I was just like blown away. And you know, but what was really funny is the whole kind of basking in the glow didn't last very long.
And then I [00:22:00] had this other feeling kind of. Descend on me. And at first I wasn't, I thought that, do I feel guilty? Like I shouldn't feel guilty. But what I realized what it was, was I had a feeling of responsibility, um, because I know there are so many people out there that, that that is their dream. Right.
That, that, that if they could have any wish in the world, it would be to have that kind of a career as an artist to be able to spend their days doing that. And I know most of them would never achieve it. And not because they didn't want it bad enough, not because they didn't have the work ethic. It's they didn't know what to do.
They didn't know how to get there.
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: so that night I actually just decided I'm gonna pay it forward. Um, and I'm gonna start teaching what I, what I know how I got here. 'cause I knew I wasn't special. I
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: figured out the things I needed to do. Um, and I realized, well, that's YouTube, I guess. Um, I, now, unfortunately this was before smartphones, um, so I went down to, uh, vistech, which is like one of the top photography, huge [00:23:00] photography stores in Toronto, and I dropped about $25,000
Aicila: Oh.
Tim: equipment, sound equipment, everything else. And I started doing my YouTube channel, right. And it was, it was purely just a kind of a, uh, an investment in karma and just giving back to the art world
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: that had kind of given so much to me. And it was all just videos trying to help artists. Um, who had that same dream. but then the one thing that I found was that, you know, you think if you put it out there, they will come.
Um, it's like, no. Um, so, and anyways, I, I did continue on the YouTube thing, but it, it was only, uh, you know, like a, a passion project on the side. I did it in kind of the spare time. Um, that I had and that, like, it was all a one man band. No, I did all the editing, everything. Um, and, and then I had the opportunity in, in 2017, um, a, a good friend of mine that I golfed with, [00:24:00] his daughter had, uh, she was a landscape architect.
She'd just graduated university and she'd gotten to know me. Um. For the last couple years she was in school and I knew that she had a passion for art. And, um, anyways, I was golfing with her dad and he said, oh, we talked with Brooke last night. And I said, well, how is she? He said, well, I can tell you one thing.
She doesn't wanna be a landscape architect. She wants to be an artist.
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: and he was not happy. Um, and if, you know, if the thought bubble over his head would be, and
Aicila: Yes.
Tim: fault. Um, and because every time I, like, we did a couple small print jobs for her. Kind of taken her art to a bit of a side hustle while she was in, in university. Um, and so I said to him, and I knew that she had the drive. Like every time we were together, we met socially, sometimes, or even to golf. She golfed with me and her dad. She was always just picking my brains, um, about, about art. And I knew that she had, she had, you know, pretty good skillset, but she had that real burning desire. Um, and she'd already [00:25:00] shown some really good business sense. Um. And so I said to her dad, I said, listen, like, you know, she's, she's living at home now. She has no debt. Um, this is the perfect time for her to do this. If, if it doesn't work out, she could go back and, you know. Do her job in landscape architecture. Um, and then I, I just said, it just came to me. I said, listen, I'd be willing to mentor her if, if she wants, as long as she's willing to have all of our sessions filmed on YouTube and to post so that other people could learn for 'em. So we started doing that, um, and thank God we filmed the sessions. So she, now, her name's Brooke Cormier.
She is like a, in terms of artists on social media, she's a superstar.
Aicila: Wow.
Tim: in Vienna right now, kind of. She's got over a million, uh, followers on social media. Um, her very first year, she made over $30,000 from her art. Uh, and by that second year we were doing self-publishing prints of her work.
Her work was being sold around the world and she's just [00:26:00] gone on to amazing success. Her work now often sells for more than mine. Um.
Aicila: That's awesome.
Tim: really, really convinced me. Okay,
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: I know what I'm talking about here, right? And that I, that I can help people. Um, but I was still just doing the, the YouTube thing And then in 2019 I had, um, really, really bad thyroid issues. I had
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: disease and almost died twice. Uh, it was lying on the gurney, kind of my wife and I not knowing if I was gonna be here in 15 minutes. Um. And, and then for that whole year I was sick. And so it, you know, that's, there's a thing called mortality motivation that,
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: when you almost die then you, you, you don't think about, gee, what am I gonna post on Instagram tomorrow?
You're thinking about, okay, is, is what I'm doing really what I want to be doing with my life? And the one thing that was great about, one thing I highly recommend is in, in the near death experience, as long as you come out about [00:27:00] okay, that while I was lying there both times, like I was. I was worried for my wife and boys, but I knew they would be fine financially.
We were secure and you know, I knew that was gonna be hard on them, but I just had this overwhelming feeling of gratitude. It
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: well, if this is it, like I was so calm. It was like, if this is it, thank you. 'cause this has been everything I could have hoped for and more. I'm not ready to go yet. But if it is, had a, I had more kicks at the happiness can than most people.
I, I know I've gotten to fulfill all of my dreams. Um, and that feeling, knowing that, you know, that, that. You feel that way about your life? Um, is is something I talk about people. It's like what people should be afraid of, you know, more than anything else is, you know, people are afraid of failure. They're afraid of public speaking.
They're afraid. What they should be afraid of is reaching that moment in their life and having nothing but regrets that
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: would've, I, you know, the feeling of [00:28:00] just knowing that, you know, that I felt that way. But over that year, I realized I did have one regret, and it was that I had still just treated the teaching. kind of a side hustle passion project. Just my main focus was still just on creating work and making lots of money from my art. I kind of decided during that year I had a talk with my wife and I, I, you know, um, and said, if I get healthy, I really wanna switch things up. I want, I'll still paint. will be in my spare time, but I'm want to direct most of my efforts towards teaching. Um, and of course her being an ex-banker, um, was like, well, that's fine, as long as you can turn it into a successful business. Uh, because even though, even though we're doing well and we fine, like I say, she's, she's like, you're not ready to quit yet. Um. And, um, we could live, but not the lifestyle we want. And so then I started really investigating into, I, I knew I wasn't gonna be teaching in person because [00:29:00] I just, I
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: I couldn't justify that because they couldn't pay me what it would be worth to give up painting to do this. And then. happened and everybody became comfortable with this, what we're doing right now,
Aicila: Yeah,
Tim: wanted
Aicila: it really changed things.
Tim: And all of a sudden it just opened up the i, the whole idea of remote learning and realizing that online learning now is a multi-billion dollar industry. Um, and then I felt really bad. I still had this kind of feeling that, you know, I don't want to be one of those people who makes my back. my money off the back of starving artists. Right. You
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Tim: my money off my rich clients. And then I actually ended up talking to some people who were in the teaching space and they were saying, you're being very selfish here. And it's like, that makes you feel noble. I get it. But two things.
If you're only, if you're only giving what you can, give part-time to it, you're not helping people as much as you could. But also the fact that people don't value stuff. That they don't pay for. There's [00:30:00] all kinds of studies say that if people take free courses, they often don't finish 'em and they don't implement them. Whereas if people pay for a course, they're much more likely of finishing it and they're much more likely of actually implementing the stuff. If they've invested in it. Once they've put themselves on the hook to actually take it, they're more likely, um, to, to carry it through and implement the things that we're taught. And so when I saw that, I thought, you know what? this is perfect. So that's in 2020. We, uh, founded the Tim Pac Art Academy and um, yeah, we just crossed a half million dollars in, uh, sales of my courses this summer. and yeah, that, that's now my life. So for success for me now is just kind of keep doing what I'm doing. Um, you know, I spend most of my time working with the Art Academy and with the students. And then in my spare time, uh, I get to paint.
Aicila: It's lovely. Well, and I've known of many people that went to school for art and the, the two things that I've seen, and also people who are, do [00:31:00] something artistic in their life or as their livelihood. And one, most people that go to school for art, uh, have expressed a, a regret slash um. Awareness moment that while they learned a lot of techniques, there was absolutely zero information on, on business, how to understand business, how to build business, how to understand yourself as in, in your financial situation.
And the other thing that I see frequently is this almost, um. I don't wanna say disgust, but like a, a, a weird relationship with money. Like that's somehow being successful artistically and successful financially aren't allowed to go together. The real, the real art comes from suffering. Right. And so I can see where if, especially your friends who teach, would find that what you're doing is.
Is really valuable because it address, it kind of confronts both of those, uh, embedded mindsets and behaviors that, that are, from what I can understand, fairly [00:32:00] consistent across, uh, whatever the discipline is, honestly.
Tim: Yeah, it's, so you touched on a few things there that are, that are really important and one is that the whole idea too, like right now, the, um, in my opinion, the art, um, art programs and universities and colleges, it's broken,
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: a couple of reasons. Um, first of all, there's a whole idea that there's a bunch of different art villages.
There's not one art world. Um, and the village that gets most of the attention is the village of publicly funded galleries and institutions where it's all about postmodernism and it's all about what the artists felt. And it's all about conceptual work, which is fine. That's a village, and that's a village that a lot of the universities and colleges focus on to the exclusion of everything, everything else. then there's, there is another village, which is the, the village of commercial sales, which is actually, I think most people when they're young and think about being an artist. That's actually what they wanted. They wanna be able [00:33:00] to go into their studio and create work that that exhibits mastery and skill and conceptual knowledge and create works of great beauty that people actually pay to hang in their homes, right, or to hang in their businesses or whatever.
Aicila: Yeah.
Tim: that's not what's being. Taught for the most part in universities. Um, and even when it is, even if you can find the, um, some university programs that have the old atelier style of teaching that does teach that, we get into a thing called debt. Um, the art programs are some of the most expensive out there, and
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: up happening
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: students graduate from university with like 50 or a hundred thousand or even more in debt. When they come outta school, they then aren't in a situation, well, okay, now I'm gonna have time to explore my art and maybe do the odd art festival. They need to get a job, job to start getting out from under this debt. And that doesn't leave an awful lot of time [00:34:00] for them to pursue their art. And what ends up happening. I, because I have a lot of these people in my program now, they just never reached the point where they were able to say, okay, now I can focus on creating my art and trying to create a business of my art. Because they're just, they, they've gotta get a job at a bank or insurance company or whatever, um, to pay off their debt. And we are in the golden age of learning. Now you can learn anything. On, on the internet, whether it's free courses, like on YouTube, whether it's books, magazines, whether it's paid online courses, and art is, is, you know, it's one of those things. It, it's like 3% learning and then 97% doing,
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: That you don't need to be in a classroom.
Even when I was in graphic design, I mean our, our instructors would come in, they'd talk for five minutes, and then we'd go and spend the rest of the time creating. Right? Um, and so now you can, you can take that money that you would spend towards an [00:35:00] art education and kind of between online learning and then if you're going to learn in person, here's the thing that, I mean, again, nothing against university art professors, whatever, but most of them. Could not survive on their art if they had to. Most of them haven't sold a painting in 10 or 20 or 30 years. But the best, the most successful artists in the world in my village, the Village where people pay five, 10, $20,000 for their paintings, most of them feel like I do about that whole idea of wanting to give back.
And so most of them teach several workshops a year. So there's places like the Scottsdale Artist School or the Art Students League in New York. There you can go and learn from artists who are actually out there at the top of their game where people line up to buy their work and you're learning from those people
Aicila: Hmm.
Tim: just in university SY system, where you're learning from someone who's probably teaching what was taught. To them 25 or 30 years ago because they're, it's just [00:36:00] a product of the university system that kind of comes out and then becomes a university professor. Um, whereas in, in either online or in these other things, you can deal with people who are actually making a living from their art now.
Aicila: Yeah. What advice would you give your 18-year-old self.
Tim: Uh, for my 18-year-old self, I would say, I would say that my ultimate talent. Was virtually unlimited and only, only limited by how hard I was willing to work and to not compare myself against other people right now. Um, because yes, there are gonna be people who are more talented than you. Um, and yes, you know, you're not talented enough to make a living as an artist. Yet, and yet is one of the most powerful words in the English language. I think that we can overcome any of the criticisms we say to ourself or the self-limiting thoughts. If you put a [00:37:00] yet on the end of it, um, then it's true because you can learn how to do the things. You can work to master the skills, master the concepts, whatever. Um, so that would've been my advice that, yeah, and, and to just not give up. Not give up, but always, but also the other thing I would've said too is, is find the dominoes. Find the things where, you know, what's the one thing right now that if you were to focus on mastering, that would have the biggest impact on everything going forward. And then it's just rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat for the rest of your life. Um, and if you do that, yeah, the sky's the limit.
Aicila: Yeah, it's great advice. Uh, so folks that are listening, for folks that are listening, how do they learn more? Follow you, get in touch.
Tim: Okay. They can, well, if they're interested in taking courses with me, they can go to www.timpackerartacademy.com. So we have a number of different courses there. Um, some of them are just like recorded courses and I have a, an online [00:38:00] community, the hungry artist community. It. It's a subscription based program and in there you get all my courses, but I meet every week.
We do a live Zoom call, um, where I'll offer coaching advice, answer questions, and critique artist work. Uh, and then if you're just looking to. Find some stuff for free. My YouTube channel is at Tim Packer Fine Arts. I have several hundred, uh, videos on my YouTube channel. I still put out a free YouTube video every week. Um, and there's a ton of information there. Um, and you can also watch that. So that young artist that I talked about, Brooke Cormier, um, if there's artists here listening, some of them probably already know her. Um, but you can see her entire progress from the very first session we had right up until. Her having her first show at my gallery and then basically taking the world by storm.
Aicila: Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing a little bit of what you're up to with my listeners. I appreciate it.
Tim: you. It's been my pleasure.
[00:39:00] I hope you enjoyed Tim's journey as much as I did. If you are feeling ready to transform your creative dream, head to Tim's website to get started. Next week. Listen in as I chat with family law expert Pad Dari.
She shares her unconventional. Effective empathy driven approach to divorce, mediation, and navigating narcissistic abuse. Thank you for turning. Thank you for tuning into business. As unusual, remember, in this ever evolving world of modern business, it's not about fitting in. It's about standing out.
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