Cultivating Belonging with Faith Clarke
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bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Welcome to business as unusual. In a world where business as usual often leaves people out. How do you cultivate a truly inclusive and values infused culture? Today I'm delighted to welcome Faith Clark, founder and driving force behind work ecosystems for humans.
Clark is an organizational culture and teamwork specialist committed to helping business leaders build spaces where people feel like they belong so they can deliver on their promises. Clark brings a truly unique lens to this work, blending her background in computer engineering and doctoral research and teamwork with her personal experience as a Caribbean immigrant
and a mother of neuro distinct humans. Her high touch systemic approach has helped clients improve operations, maximize productivity, and increase revenue. Faith, welcome to the show.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Glad you're having me here.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: I'm really excited to have this conversation with you and, we're gonna do something a little differently today, one might say unusual and take on a challenge that, [00:01:00] faith sees in, in her work and work through it a little bit so you can kind of get a sense of what some of this means, or I guess even better, what it looks like.
We always have ideas about what things mean. So come in and join us for the ride here. The topic is the core of belonging and then how that goes into designing collaborative leadership. So do you wanna kind of frame that?
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Well, um, so the, the challenge, um, we'll come back to what the actual challenge is, but,
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Okay.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: word nerd and so I can get to like, what do we mean when we say particular words? And I think especially in the us this does lead to a lot of the challenges we experience at work in our society. The culture is, say, a low context culture that because we're all from somewhere else, multi lots of generations together, we make assumptions about what we all mean when we speak.
And so part of designing work experiences where humans can thrive is [00:02:00] about this. Okay, what do we mean? And how do we understand each other? So belonging is a subjective experience. Everybody wants it, but nobody can make sure the other feels it. Um, and it's an experience people call it an experience of home.
It's an experience of safety. Even though we know there's no perfect safety, it's an experience of my needs. Are owned, not just by me, but by the community. So you have to belong with, you don't kind of necessarily feel a sense of belonging on your own, but when you belong with a particular group, that group owns your needs as part of their own.
So communal need fulfillment and a communal repair. So when needs aren't met. Um, the community is, is committed to doing it. So people say to me that when they know they don't belong, if they have to advocate for their needs, and, you know, we, we, we encourage people to be self advocates and it's seen as such a strength.
But the reality is [00:03:00] that if I have to say to you, please, please, this is what I need, then it's an indication of my lack of belonging. So when we think about belonging and collaborative leadership, you know, we're talking about the kind of leadership that's a collective and that's integrated to multiple people sharing whatever it is that we're calling the work of leadership and sharing it in a way that there isn't a particular person that you're gonna point and blame. That you're not gonna kind of say you are all but, but in fact, there is this co-creation of the work co-creation of support, co-creation of need, fulfillment for the group and for the organization and commitment to harm repair.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: So. Can you, I mean, the so saying no one can give you belonging, but, but to a certain extent, the system itself does reinforce that feeling of it. Is that okay?
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: no one can make sure you [00:04:00] belong and,
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Right. Okay.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: part of, part of. What happens here is that when we become, uh, committed to an idea here, meaning in the US and I'm, I'm an immigrant, and so there's, it's interesting to kind of compare what happens in the US to what happens in other spaces. In the US When people get committed to an idea, the perfectionism can get very high and people want the right answer.
Leaders want the exact right answer. So an idea like belonging, one of the, the questions people, leaders will ask me is, how do I make sure. how do I make sure I'm doing the right thing? And
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Right.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: I'm offering this as a disclaimer. It is a statement of humility to know that you can do your absolute best to set up a culture and an environment of belonging, but you cannot make another person feel
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: this. And so that cannot be your focus to make another person feel like they belong. That's going to be an autonomous and individual experience. What you have to be a hundred percent committed to is the [00:05:00] environment that can, that creates belonging. And then we'll see if, of course, if, uh, situations arise and a person feels that they don't belong and they're able to share that with you, then you can, as a leader, then you can figure out, oh, what do I need to modify in the environment?
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: make sure that that's a a thing. So when I think environment, I think soil, I think ecosystem. I think in the space that's making belonging be a byproduct.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: I think that that's actually a really, I think, powerful distinction to, to bring forward is the difference between trying to control a person or influence their specific internal world versus create and foster an opportunity for people.
And then they have to choose it. And I think that also fosters that, that autonomy, that collaborativeness that you want when you're trying to create something that is more of that flat structure and collaborative leadership [00:06:00] system. I see it in with different entrepreneurs and smaller groups.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: I think, but even, um, you know, it's, I think when we understand that environment or systems. 80% of the change that we want, that only about 20%. The 80 20 rulers apply here, 20% of behavior change, et cetera, is. to the individual that 80% is the environment. And my favorite example of that is, yeah, let me pump out the oxygen outta this room and let's see if people will behave.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: is, the environment has so holds so much weight. That when leaders focus on environmental things, it is absolutely going to have much more of a return than when we are focused on any kind of individual efforts, including trying to make a person anything, do anything, you know, and so. Um, and individuals don't choose to belong. Individuals experience belonging in certain kinds of environments, and so we [00:07:00] can't even, um, manipulate a person in
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: belonging. Right. It is a subjective experience that a person will have. It's like I put my hand too close to the stove and I pull my hand back, so it's what kinds of environments will facilitate that and then trust that that will be the
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: For a particular person. What we have not been doing is having environments where people's care is priority number one. And two, owned by the community, not just the leader or the leadership or HR or something. And an environment where communal care isn't the priority, then you won't feel like you belong.
Because what will happen is that you're besides so and so who doesn't care about your care, and that that person throws off your experience of belonging.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like the, the things that I've seen with systems is that people getting too [00:08:00] fixated also in trying to create a specific outcome instead of create a specific environment and then, you know, uh, that, that leans to that outcome. Right. But doesn't necessarily try to force it. And then with the leadership piece, I feel like there's a there can be a a, a step skipped, especially with frankly, people that are innovating and creating things. They don't always recognize that, uh, there's a, there's a little bit of scaffolding or bridging that people might need. I work with a lot of folks that are very much, they're, they're gonna lead the pack.
They're gonna go try things. They're not afraid to fail. They're not afraid to get it wrong. They don't love it. Let's be clear, right? They're out there and they, they sort of assume everybody wants to be. And it's just not the case. A lot of people are very happy to have a clear outline of this is, this is the way.
How do you help people with to see what needs to happen to foster that environment?
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Environment of belonging or communal leadership.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: I mean, I was thinking [00:09:00] leadership, but either one.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Um, so one of the things that I've seen with leaders even, and especially leaders who are the run out in front of the pack, and I, lots of the leaders I work with are women, is invisible labor and burnout.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: and so yes, I see I have vision and not only that, but I'm used to getting things done. And I do get things done and I invite people along to the journey with me. But I am so much in the charge ahead that I accept work that I probably shouldn't have accepted. And let's be clear that, you know, invisible labor is also a systemic issue
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Right.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: is tied to our marginalized identities. And so for every marginalized identity you have, there is a, um there is labor associated with that identity in navigating your work and your home and everything else. And so a lot of my clients who are women in leadership, especially in social impact spaces, have already taken on the work of [00:10:00] most of the emotional labor and stuff like that in the space.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Right.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: So those people can feel like Atlas holding up the world as I am. Those people, and I have also experienced that, so communal leadership is leadership that says it's not just yours to bear. It said whatever this impact is, whatever this work is that we we're here to do. And so I invite, I tell leaders that you want to invite people into your vision and into your mission, into the work that you are doing. You are not just hiring a. Whoever you're inviting people to sign on for this work, to change the world, whatever that work is, and then your leadership team, even if they have different positions from you, need to invite people into this, this network of holding the work together. Because otherwise what we have is. A person holding all of the visible and invisible labor and a person then being vulnerable to the blame [00:11:00] and all this other stuff that's associated with that. And I feel like fundamentally person that doesn't belong. And it's, it's an unfortunate and sad reality that leadership comes with a ton of power and also comes with a lot of not belonging because the leaders is
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: We allow leaders, especially leaders with multiple marginalized identities, we allow them to overwork, overcompensate, fill in all the cracks and so on, and then blame them for the work that's not done. And
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: do have a ton of power, but I think that power is best done as power with. And yes, the leader has a ton of responsibility for creating power with but in systems where power with versus power over. Power with isn't, um, isn't sexy
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: right? So it's very difficult to go against the grain, create power with, but you do power over and you're alone holding this work that's not [00:12:00] meant for you to hold alone, and then you get blamed for it. So it's, it's just not effective. It though, it looks, it's, it's what's been modeled
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: it looks, it,
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: workspaces.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: it looks sufficient from the outside. It, it, it gives the impression of that. But it, I agreed, like there's very few places where I've seen it as a, a better solution. It's just simply the understood solution. I also feel like the, the folks that you're talking about, those marginalized and oppressed and intersectional identities often blame themselves to start.
They usually have really unrealistically high expectations and feel like if they're not thriving or making everything work in this power over model, that that is something about them. Instead of understanding the model itself is a, a big part of the, the issue.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: That understanding whether it's they blame themself or hold themself to certain kinds of expectations are part of the systemic injustice.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: you have not [00:13:00] gotten to this point of leadership without taking excessive responsibility. For
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Right.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: not yours to do, and doing excessive labor to navigate barriers that other people haven't navigated. And so the, the very nature of systemic injustice is to set up structure so that it's easy to blame people who are lower in value in the system. And
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Mm-hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: word
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: that, which is that's the beauty of collaboration, because when you build a collaborative leadership entity, what you're saying is. not you, it's us.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yep.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: we know, you know, synergy. It's proven in science and it shows up with people that one plus one is never two where people is concerned. One plus one becomes 10. You know, and when it is that we can get people, humans in sync with each other, the science says that, that we inter think like we actually can form a collective cognitive, uh, like understanding when we're working together, [00:14:00] that synergizes in ways that people in different roles working together just don't have. Um, we see it in our team sports all the time. It looks like magic. It looks like the surprise play. But it really is people kind of being in sync with each other. You know, team cognition and team cohesion working together. So when we are able to build that, we have, have the protection of the squad. we have the support and the care and the need fulfillment built into that. And therefore, people's differences are not things that stick out and are are judged, but they're
integrated in.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: My experience of the places where I've been able to. Experience that either as a participant or a co-creator in it. Is it also reduces a lot of like wasted energy and effort and emotion. Because when something happens, there's not sort of the hot potato blame game. It's, oh, okay, we have to deal with this.
And then afterwards there might be a, a review of like, [00:15:00] how did, how did this not get thought of, oh, okay, let's, let's adjust our systems. But even that's not a like. How did this not get thought of someone did something wrong? It's how did we as a group not realize we'd wanna know this thing or prevent or plan for this thing?
And so there's a there's an ease of communication and ease of addressing things when they don't go the way you like. And ease of finding a system that is more effective. So there's this front end labor of learning how to do this thing that is not typical. The long term impact in my experience is much reduced effort and, and much better results.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: mean it's, it's much sustainable, but of course there is a steep learning curve for anything we don't know. Then there's a steep learning curve, especially if your business in pro your business is going like it's one thing to learn this and then to. Implement it with a business from scratch. But if your business
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Right.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: is already in process, then you're, you're basically changing the tires of the bus while it's running. [00:16:00] But it is what it is. This is, this is just part of how we need to navigate, to figure out how to improve a system we've inherited that was built on exploitation.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: fine, this is where we are and what do we need to do to, um, kind of move that forward. But you're right, it is less emotionally taxing when we've become competent in it.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah, it has a lot of benefits. Um, what does success look like for you? In a general sense, not just around this topic.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: I, I don't, I don't kind of have a success as an idea that I work towards.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Mm-hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: work towards being my most authentic self
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: version of that self in the moment that I'm in. and that kind of means keeping. Clear on what I want and kind of holding that alongside all of what's going on in my real, real life.
[00:17:00] So what are my constraints? And, you know, opportunities and holding all of that alongside how does this complex entity who's truly human, interact to the world. So I feel like I, I guess we could say successful. I feel happy.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: effective when I am saying yes to me and saying yes to community at the same time.
And I'm able to hold that. Yes. Yes. And I do believe that there's a, um, this, this polarity that's common that is super harmful, that we feel like a yes here means a no here. And I think that we can build the capacity to be saying yes, yes, I can claim myself. And claim you at the same time. And it takes some effort to build that bridge that allows me to hold onto myself and hold onto you. But I feel effective when, when I'm able to be doing that.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah, I win when you win is kind of a general feeling for [00:18:00] me. And, and I feel like there's a lot of people that feel that way. And they don't necessarily get a lot of feedback that that's. Great. You can be, you can be differently successful and still be very committed to that duality of interaction and thoughtfulness.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Mm-hmm.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: What advice would you give your 18-year-old self? Um.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: What advice would I give my 18-year-old self? I think she did a great job, so I don't even know what I would say to her about difference. Except, except to continue to trust yourself. My 18-year-old self, decided to build community a particular way to pursue that community while being in college to love people in a, in specific ways that felt different from what I'd seen happening around me.
And, I think I would encourage [00:19:00] my 18-year-old self to trust yourself, because that's. Those skills are even more important than whether we're able to code in c plus plus, which is what I was studying. or you know, you know who, who, who invaded who, when and where. The mandatory history class, like it really was about. Knowing and understanding people and helping people build community. And me, I'm people, how do I receive, give and receive into community? And so I think I was already getting glimmers of that, and I, I would encourage, tell myself to listen to that not think it's just a thing on the side, but really
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm. Give it some center stage
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Yeah.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Mm-hmm.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Is there anything that you're particularly excited about right now in your business? Any offerings or things you've discovered or work you're doing?
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Um, well, I'm, I'm pretty excited about the, so my work is in restorative culture design, and so I help [00:20:00] nonprofits, um, design, like not get into the retrofit crazy that so many large organizations are in as they're trying to fix this. It's just expensive to fix culture. But I do feel, uh, we talked about this a little bit before, that culture beat strategy every day of the week and people say, Hey, faith, can you help me with some strategic planning?
And I'm like, can, but strategy isn't gonna get you where you want to do go. And if we can build. The habits and the behaviors that sustain the culture you want, then your strategy can sit on that and really go where you want. And so it's really, I'm enjoying being with people who are really to community change and social impact, because those people already. They already can see, oh, we want to honor people.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: then it's easy for me to say, Hey, your people your culture needs to honor the people who are here and your medicine that you're offering out in community to do this and that. And the other [00:21:00] work needs to be evident inside. And so that's, um, been a real, um, yeah, energizing to my heart.
And I think in addition, as I lean into. The connection between invisible labor and not belonging. it's been gratifying to, to validate some of the leaders and say, Hey, listen, this
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: you're doing this, this impossible task that you're doing, that you're trying to keep the organization solvent and all this thing, which is important. You have to release it. Other people have to join you in this. and
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Hmm.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: 20 leaders, too many leaders are trying to hold it up. while they figure out what to do. And, and there is a grieving process associated with not holding it all up. You have to let it go and some things do crash, but then there is an opportunity to reform.
There's the chaos cycle as a, a, like a graph. So there's an opportunity to reform with the wisdom that you know, but if we keep trying to sustain the impossible situation we're in, it doesn't [00:22:00] work. And so it's a gift to kind of walk alongside people during that. Especially if I'm engaged with an organization for a couple of years, then to kind of help them move through the labor pains, the birthing of the new baby and the nourishing of this new, um, and a culture that they're the kind of creating to sustain this new path in the world that they're doing.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Yeah.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: In terms of offers, right now I am, I am offering culture design audits. It's like a short. A short kind of, you know, six to eight weeks we get together and we do a quick kind of understanding so you can get the sense of the low hanging fruit culture design I found is at least a two year engagement. But the audit will help you to see what are one or two places where if I put some effort, you can kind of see like a, a triple a, a ripple effect. You know, you can kind of see some shift somewhere versus trying to do an overall in the whole situation. Uh, and so it. That's [00:23:00] something people are interested in. They definitely, uh, can reach out to me and we could talk about that.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: That sounds really fascinating.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: Okay.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Please, all of you reach out. , And then for folks that are listening, how do they learn more? Follow you, get in touch.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: I am in the socials as Faith Clark, um, you know, faith Clark, or Faith a Clark. But my website is faith clark.com and um, one of my auditing tools is@restorativeworkculture.com. I'll, we'll make those available in the show notes.
bau--she-they-_1_08-06-2025_123629: Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today.
faith-clarke--she-her-_1_08-06-2025_143629: It was lovely to be here. Thanks for this great conversation.
Join me and guest Autumn Wade next week. She'll share how she uses T-T-R-P-G inspired coaching tools to help clients break through feeling stuck by embracing their authentic values and challenging unhelpful inner narratives.
Thank you for tuning into business as unusual, remember, in this ever evolving world of modern business, it's not about fitting in.[00:24:00]
It's about standing out. See you next time. Stay curious, stay innovative, and always keep it unusual.
