Rockstar Screenwriting with David Silverman

Aicila: [00:00:00] Welcome to Business as Unusual. My guest today is David Silverman, a highly accomplished screenwriter TV producer and Stanford educated psychotherapist. David has co-created five TV series, including The Wild Thornberries, which led to two feature films and has written for or produced over 30 shows.

Drawing on his background as a psychotherapist, he has also coached aspiring writers to achieve success in selling their own films and TV shows. His unique insights into the essential mindset for screenwriting success are captured in his book, how to Be a Rock Star Screenwriter. I'm delighted to welcome you to the show, David.

I'm looking forward to discussing your career, and the different things that you've brought to the table over the years. Thanks for joining me.

David: No, thanks for having me. Yes,

Aicila: And, uh, I'm assuming being a rock star screenwriter does not include an amp or a bass guitar, but we're gonna find out as we continue.

David: yeah, those are optional.

Aicila: They're optional. Okay, cool.

David: Okay.

Aicila: Most of us have some sense of the fact that [00:01:00] screenwriting in Hollywood's kind of a brutal business. And do you feel like, what do you feel like helped you be successful?

I know that you have a whole book about it, but maybe you could tease a little bit for people.

David: Yes. Um, yeah, that, that's probably the hardest part is breaking in. Yeah. Once you're in, things get a little bit easier. Uh, you have a reputation and you have credits. Um. But, uh, the, the thing is it's a long haul. The, the, the process is, uh, unfortunately, um, the average screenwriter maybe sells their ninth script that they've written. You know, the first script, almost never every chapter on that. Almost never. You almost, you know, you're not gonna sell your first script. So that's a psychological barrier.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: So you have to kinda have this zen of, uh, knowing that you still have to write it and do your best. , It's not gonna sell, but [00:02:00] the upside though is it could be a really good writing sample to get you an agent or a manager or get you meetings with producers. So I try to emphasize, the wins. Even though you're not selling scripts, it doesn't mean you're not winning, you know, kinds of points. So I try to make it, easier for people to feel like they're in the game and, and then not feel too disconnected, which is, it's, writing itself is a, isolating process.

It's

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: one person and a computer. , You know, I was fortunate to have a writing partner, um, which may, which is a chapter on that too, which is a really good idea if you're interested in writing for television or movies.

Aicila: Mm-hmm. Was that a writing partner as in someone that actually wrote. The same script with you or someone that you wrote in tandem with and you sort of supported each other.

David: Right. Yeah. People worked differently as teams. Like my partner and I, it was always, we both shared credit for the script. So we both

Aicila: Hmm.[00:03:00]

David: in our, our input was in both, both of us, uh, fully in, in the script and, uh. Sometimes I would write Act one, and he would write act two, and then we'd switch. Or sometimes we sat in the room together went, you know, line by line and, or we broke the story together and, and then we filled it in later. Uh, but yeah, there's lots of different ways to work. But yeah, we had a, a rule they thought that was very beneficial. If people decide to team up with somebody as a. Each, each person in the team gets a veto power. So if they don't, 'cause a lot of pe a lot of teams get hung up on arguing over and that.

My partner and I, we just said, if, if you don't like it, we'll come up with something different, you know?

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: Um, so, uh, yeah, so I was very lucky. I, I wrote with, um, Steve, my first partner then howard and then Jack, and then another Steve. So I always preferred working with some [00:04:00] partners. It's

Aicila: Yeah.

David: lonely too.

Aicila: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So what do you have a couple tips or a story that you can share about. What motivated this idea of how to be a rockstar screenwriter? What, what you're, what you can, um, yeah, how you could give people some sense of why this matters to you or why you came up with this idea.

David: Um, yeah, so the origin of that, the book is, so at, at some point

Aicila: I.

David: my screenwriting career, I, I went back to school. I went and got a masters and studied for the boards and everything, and did 3000 hours of internship, which is a lot, you know,

Aicila: Hmm.

David: working for free most of the time

Aicila: Yeah.

David: Uh, but anyways, that yeah, so I started writing a blog for this big company called Psych Central.

They had a huge, a website and hundreds [00:05:00] of thousands of people wrote it, it every day. I wrote a whole bunch of articles. I had over 65 articles. I, I think I, they, they wanted me to write one every week. So I had to,

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: I ended up with 65 articles and then I, I cut 20 of 'em and that, uh, then I rewrote them as chapters instead of blogs.

And now that's the book. So it has lots of good advice

Aicila: Hmm.

David: for people who wanna be, screenwriters. And, uh, especially on the psychological and, uh, motivational aspects of it,

Aicila: How did, how did you go from psychotherapy to screenwriting? Was it a, was it a natural progression or

David: it was, know, so I, um, I grew up in therapy. I, my family went to therapy. My brother had OCD and uh, it was really kind of hard thing for him. And like when he's you know, 11 or 12. And, uh, so my family went every week for, you know, [00:06:00] probably six or seven years.

Aicila: Hmm.

David: So the, the idea of going to therapy was kind of familiar to me and I liked what was going on there.

And my brother got better. And, uh, it felt like a miracle when he did. So I was really impressed and I thought, uh, and I also just always had this curiosity about human behavior. So. So, uh, so I

Aicila: They are your species, so that makes sense.

David: yeah. Yeah. so then, yeah, when I went to college, it was natural. You know, I just majored in psychology.

I was like, Stanford had the best psychology department in the country at that time. It was really exciting. A lot of big names were there teaching, and, uh, so that's, that's how I started, uh, thought for sure I was gonna be a psychotherapist. Coming outta college. But, um, I also took, um, some creative writing classes at Stanford the guy I wrote [00:07:00] presumed innocent Scott Turre was my teacher.

And, uh, I really liked it was just fun. It was a lot of fun doing that. And so it a new experience for me. Uh, but, uh, yeah, eventually, um. After I got out of, uh, college, I decided I was gonna go to film school instead of continuing in. I went to USC and that's where I met my writing partner. And, uh, it wasn't long after that we were selling TV scripts. Really lucky that that happened quickly.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: Um, one, one and a half years maybe. Like I say uh, all the research I've done says most screenwriters have to write about seven, eight, or nine scripts before they sell one, so

Aicila: Yeah. It's like the, the first crepe is for the dog. So

David: Yeah.

Aicila: I dunno if you know that saying in, in cooking, but this, that's the first crepe is for the dog. So apparently the first script is not for [00:08:00] selling.

David: Yeah,

Aicila: you something else.

David: no, yeah. I, I've yet to hear of a person who sold the first script they wrote, but I'd be happy to hear that story. Uh.

Aicila: the exceptions prove the rules sometimes.

David: That's true.

Aicila: What do you see as unusual about what you do or how you do it?

David: Um, well, let's see. About what I do, huh? I think the, the fact that I have so much experience as a writer and dealing with Hollywood personalities, um, helps me when I'm talking to people who are going through problems who are writers or sometimes I work with actors and directors too. But uh, yeah, I can always fall back on the experiences I've had. And it always seems to work better in therapy if you can kind of tell a story

Aicila: Hmm.

David: that resonates with people about my experience and how I dealt with it. So I think that's, uh, [00:09:00] that's one thing I bring to the table,

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: as a therapist.

Aicila: What does success look like for you?

David: Success. Oh, well, I feel like my screenwriting career has been a success.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: I created five TV shows and worked on lots of, with lots of my, uh, you know, favorite people from South Park and mark Mindy working with Robin Williams and, uh, working with. Drew Carey and, uh, norm McDonald and all these really funny people.

Aicila: Yeah.

David: um, and we have really great experiences on ALF and, uh, New Heart and nine to five. And so feels like success. Um, when I work with people on a personal level and I can see some breakthroughs and see them coming around and getting. You know better that that's a big, a perk.

Aicila: Yeah.[00:10:00]

Was so when, when you're working on TV shows, that that's also like a, my, I know very little about this, so if I say something ignorant, please correct me. But it's a, it's a group, right? Like you guys are writing in a group. So I wonder if you working both understanding human behavior a little more intentionally and also writing with a partner made that a little more seamless, or do you feel like that's just what you know, sometimes it's easy chaos and sometimes it's hard chaos.

David: Right. Yeah. No, it's, me, it was a fun experience writing in a room. Yeah. Most TV shows um, you know, 10 to 15, uh, writers on staff and, uh. Usually every day you, in a room with all those people, so you get to know 'em really well.

Aicila: Yeah.

David: And you eat lunch and dinner with 'em and sometimes we're there till 3:00 AM

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: Many shows, uh, went really long like that. So, um, [00:11:00] yeah, I feel like just being able to get along with people is a huge asset.

Aicila: I can imagine.

David: And you do also have to. Like, you can't be too uh, you know, about the way things go in the room. You know, not everybody can get their ideas in the, the showrunner or the head writer is the one who decides what goes in.

So, so you have to kinda have a lower your ego a little

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: and just, get along with people. That's a, that's a huge thing for writers who wanna be television writers. That's the thing that, uh, it's a very social situation. So you have to, that's where ageism into play. Also. You tend to see younger people in tv.

Aicila: Hmm.

David: So for writers who are older, I have a couple chapters on, uh. You know, older writers breaking into television and movies. So [00:12:00] movies probably easier 'cause the, you know, you're not in a room with a bunch of other people, you're an older writer. And Hollywood does have this age of some problem. I.

Aicila: Yeah. Is, uh, so when you talk about screenwriting and how to be a rockstar screenwriter, are you meaning both television and movies, or do you, is there a, is there a different process for either one or,

David: Yeah. No, I mean both. Yeah.

Aicila: mm-hmm.

David: um, yeah, it's, it's very, yeah, it's a very similar process and, you know, some TV shows, our shows tend to be more like movies, you know, they're more cinematic and. shows I worked on were mostly comedies. You know, some were see three camera comedies where, you know, show took place in front of a live audience and that was pretty exciting.

Uh,

Aicila: Yeah.

David: but some, uh, yes, I also worked on, you know, one camera show they call 'em, [00:13:00] where we went out into the field and shot, uh, no audience, you know.

Aicila: Hmm.

David: And, uh, the show Alf I worked on, it was a, Alf was a puppet. You know, it was like, like, uh, so there was the guy who, so that there was no live audience for that 'cause there's a lot of, uh, like they had a special stage that came like up to your chest level.

And, uh, the guy who operated the puppet would around and it'd be like a little cutout there so he could walk around the set with the puppet in his hand and operate it. Uh, so yeah, very different styles. So one camera versus three camera.

Aicila: Is it changed how the writing works when you do that or,

David: Um, yeah, the writing mainly you could do more on a one camera show. Like if you wanted to go out and, and shoot, uh, on location somewhere, you could do that.

Aicila: mm-hmm.

David: Uh, yeah. The, the, the shows that are three camera, they're really meant to [00:14:00] be on a stage, like a more like a stage play.

Aicila: Interesting. What's something you wish more people knew about screenwriting?

David: Um, let's see, I guess, uh, um, some of the big myths about screenwriting, what are they, I guess, yeah, some people do think that they're gonna write a script and become a millionaire. That's.

Aicila: Are you, are you a millionaire now? Is that.

David: Uh, that's true. I, I, not from one script though, but I was fortunate to be, uh, in a lot of good situations. So later in our career, my partners and I had what they call a development deal at Fox, where they pay you to go in and come up with movie ideas or TV ideas in our case. Uh, and they paid us a million dollars a year to do that.

So.

Aicila: Nice. Very fun. What, was there one that you came up with during that time that you're especially proud of or like to point to?

David: Yeah, we, well, we came up with [00:15:00] pretty rare what we, we managed to get three shows on the air during that period. And one of them was The Wild Thornbury, which is a, uh, kids show, animated TV show, uh, where you know, this family travels and makes, uh. Uh, you know, uh, sort of travel films and, and, and one of the, one of the daughter can speak to animals.

And so they get into all kinds of crazy situations, and it's really, uh, heartwarming and well written and funny.

Aicila: Nice.

David: So that one, I, uh, it, it also went like eight seasons and there were two movies, two feature films based on it. So it was exciting and lots of toys, you know.

Aicila: That's important. Were you involved in all of that and all the films and all the seasons, or did you just do the original?

David: Well, mostly we came up with the original pilot. Yeah. The three of

Aicila: Okay.

David: partner, Steve. Steve and me. Um, my two Steve.

Aicila: That's so convenient because then you can always say, Steve, and you'd [00:16:00] never have to worry that you've gotten anybody's name. You know, miss called.

David: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that was thrilling and uh, you know, we also managed to get to sitcoms on the air and. Uh, one of 'em started Ellen Hor from Saturday Night Live, and she was really hilarious and it was fun to work on that. And then the other one, uh, was called Secret Service Guy about, uh, sort of like a get smart type show where,

Aicila: Hmm.

David: uh, this, this guy was working at the, at the White House. As a security guard and he takes a bullet for the president.

Aicila: Hmm,

David: So the president wants him on his, uh, secret Service squad and he's not really qualified to do that. So it turns out like a get smart kind of thing. It was fun to write that.

Aicila: nice. What advice would you give your 18-year-old self.

David: Oh boy, that's a good question.[00:17:00]

Aicila: It is genuinely my favorite one right now.

David: I see. Well, there'd be like, buy Apple stock, right?

Aicila: Okay.

David: Things like that. Uh uh. But yeah, I, when I was 18, I had no idea I was gonna be a screenwriter. So I'd guess I would say hold on, be, be, know, don't lock into anything quite yet.

Aicila: Hmm.

David: So that was more in my early twenties when I started. I, I was 28 when I started working on one Day at a time. It was a show with Valerie Elli and uh, it's, uh, Norman L Show was fun to work on.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: So 28. Yeah, so a lot changed between 18 and 28. I totally went a different direction and my parents weren't thrilled at that either. Yeah, when I went into show business, you know, it's like, my God, [00:18:00] I remember my, my father saying something like, you know, know when we put you in Stanford, we kind of thought you were gonna be a doctor. I.

Aicila: Doctor screenwriter to you? Dad.

I mean, I think it all. It comes in handy that you use some of those skills and knowledge in the, the work that you did, so it's not like it was wasted.

David: No, no, no. And eventually I went back and, you know, I'm now a practicing, uh, psychotherapist.

Aicila: Yeah. Do you take a lot of clients?

David: Yeah. I turn down a lot of clients. Uh, yeah. I get constantly get. Ask for, you know,

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: I focus on, uh, anxiety and trauma, things like that. So there are a lot of people with those in those situations that are looking for help. So,

Aicila: Yeah. And do you primarily work with writers or actors, or is it more [00:19:00] that's a completely separate thing that you do? I.

David: yeah, no, I do. Um, I tend to work with a lot of writers and directors. Sometimes actors, but uh, and then there's people who just find me 'cause I'm on the same insurance board, you know,

Aicila: Yeah.

David: Anthem, they're looking for somebody.

Aicila: Yeah.

David: I like the, the variety, you know, people from different, I learned a lot about people doing all these different jobs and what it's like for them.

Aicila: Yeah.

David: It's, that's kinda interesting thing about psychotherapy is you kinda, it's almost like you have all these friends that you talk to every week.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: their life with 'em and the ups and downs and things like that.

Aicila: Hmm. That's kind of beautiful. I haven't really thought of it that way.

David: Yeah, no, I do feel that, you know, I spend more time talking to them than most of my acquaintances and friends.

Aicila: Yeah.

David: Uh.

Aicila: What's the thing you're most excited about in your business right now? I.[00:20:00]

David: Um, there's a lot of breakthroughs in, uh, treating trauma. I've been studying, uh, this thing called EMDR, which is, if you don't know what it is, it's kinda hard to understand it. It involves, uh. The rapid eye movement

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: treating trauma and have you heard of it?

Aicila: Yeah, I did it like 20 years ago and it was very, very successful.

David: yeah. It's very, uh, it's just very good. I, uh, I learned to do that and I practice that a lot. And, uh, that's kind exciting. Uh, it's really good for like a specific trauma, like a, you're in a car crash or a school shooting or something. It's, uh, it really helps a lot. There's other kinds of trauma which are more, they call complex trauma,

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: which may like involve, uh, being traumatized over time,[00:21:00]

Aicila: Yeah,

David: years and years.

Those are tougher cases, but.

Aicila: that makes sense. A little bit more layered of a behavior and an impact. Uh. Do you talk about any of, like, those types of things in, in your book, or is there, is it very, is it very separated, the two things that you do? Or is there any place where when you're talking about the screenwriting, uh, some of those tactics and skills get brought into that process?

Or is it more

David: All

Aicila: that's something, you know, and of course it informs things.

David: Yeah. So here, here's the book actually.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: rockstar screenwriter, and then underneath it says, or at least pay the bills.

Aicila: I mean, that's, that's equally true for rock stars from what I understand.

David: Right? Um, so yeah, there's a chapter on, uh, like there's, uh, a lot of writers are, tend to be sensitive people, right? They introspective they, they do, they're isolated a lot of their lives. And they tend to have, uh, [00:22:00] extreme sense sensitivities, environmental sensitivities and things like that. Yeah. a book out on the highly sensitive person.

Aicila: Mm-hmm. I've read that.

David: but yeah, and so, so you know what they're talking about. A lot of people have, they need to control the environment. So it's not too overwhelming.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: and also some people have social anxiety, so I, there's a couple chapters in the book on how to kind of, you know, get past that as a writer, like, for example, and the TV writers are always, it's like completely social situation, so you need to figure out ways to get outta your, you know, the bubble, so

Aicila: Mm.

David: And, uh, for people with high, high sensitivity, you know, I talk about how they can try to control the environment. Like try not to be on the freeway at [00:23:00] four. You know, try not to go to the supermarket when it's the busiest and that sort of thing.

Aicila: Right. Be.

David: to limit your meetings. Let's say you don't have three in a row or 'cause, uh, some, if people have that issue, it's, it could really, blow the whole day.

Aicila: Yeah,

David: And

Aicila: you really can.

David: tough to deal with, you know? Um, so yeah, there's some situations in the book that address that, but mostly it's for, know, newbies you know, people who are just starting out, uh, and looking for shortcuts to success. There's, yeah, there's a lot of things I wish I'd known

Aicila: Yeah.

David: in here like about how to get your script read, for example.

Uh. Uh, for any writers out there who are looking to get their screenplays read, , without an agent, it's hard. But I talk about how to get an agent, but I also talk about how to, without having an agent, how to get your script to producers.

Aicila: Yeah.

David: there's [00:24:00] a app called IMDB, it's Internet movie database,

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: have a, a pro version that costs about $150.

It's worth getting. And, so if you're writing a certain kind of a script, like a, a horror movie or a, a romcom or something, and you're looking, idea is to look, look at the, producers who make that kind of movie and, because they usually tend to wanna do more of the same, right?

Aicila: Yeah, they have. They like it. That makes sense.

David: like it or they have experience with it, or it's easy for them to sell. So anyway, that's a great way to find people. And then I talk about how to, you have to have a release form. I. Uh, you know, something that says, I won't sue you if you read this, you know, that sort of thing.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: But yeah, that's, how people start out. If you don't have an agent, they have to get the word out somehow.

Aicila: Right. That sounds, it sounds like helpful tips to give people some, some ways to, [00:25:00] to think about it and be creative too. I mean, if they're writers, they're probably already creative. So reminding them to be creative also in their approach to pitching and getting the word out and not, not get hemmed in by one idea or approach.

David: Right. Yeah. For like the way the studios are acting today, it's really hard to sell like a big budget. Feature,

Aicila: Hmm.

David: Like they usually go to their A-list guys for that. So in the book I talk about, , writing like a low budget it's more likely you're gonna sell it. And once you sell a script and you're, you know, the likelihood that you'll keep selling 'em goes way up, right?

So, uh, low blazer horror is especially, , easy to sell because. You don't necessarily need a big movie star in a horror movie,

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: the Monster or whatever the

Aicila: That's kind of the big thing.

David: really why they people come to it. that's the easiest kinda script to sell. And like for [00:26:00] example, another thing I talk about in the book is, um, like everybody wants to direct in Hollywood. And um, like I was just approached by an editor. edits all these horror films? The, the, the nun and, , Friday the 13th. And, uh, so, but he's looking to move up and direct his first horror film. So had a script that he was interested in and, so it would be his first directing gig. And so, uh, when you, if you know how to target those people, and that's true of assistant directors. And cinematographers and all these other people, everybody wants to move up and uh, direct. So that's another way to get your script to the right people. And then, you know, they have some clout 'cause they, they're editing these, all these big movies or they're doing cinematographer and they know a lot of people so they can get your movie made.

So anyway,

Aicila: Nice.

David: of great [00:27:00] tips in here about how to, how to sell your first script.

Aicila: What's the most unusual way that either you or someone you know has sold a script?

David: Uh, let's see. Well, you do hear, hear stories about people taking out billboards, you know, and putting

Aicila: Yeah.

David: Putting the script in a pizza box and delivering it things like that. Yeah.

Aicila: Yeah. But I mean, something that you actually know that you did or someone that you know did.

David: Well, yeah, I was kind of bold. I think that. They say Fortune favorite favors the bold. But, so I was, I was on the lot and I would take my scripts to, , TV producers and leave them on the desk. And, uh, we were in, pitching the Jeffersons and it's happened to be in a TV show that was other Norman leadership. And, uh, we took, I, I had a bunch of scripts. I, I used to carry 'em with me whenever I was on a studio. A lot like that. So

Aicila: Okay.[00:28:00]

David: I took, I took another script, like a spec script that my partner and I wrote, and I put it on this guy's desk at this show one day at a time. And, I got a call back and he wanted us to come in and pitch the show.

And so that

Aicila: Nice.

David: unusual. Kind of bold move now. Yeah, again, you have to include a, a release form if you do

Aicila: Gotcha.

David: Otherwise, you know, they for fear of being sued and that probably happens a lot in Hollywood. So

Aicila: Yeah.

David: they don't wanna read anything that doesn't come with a release. Uh, if you have an agent, you don't need the release forms. kind of implied in the agents.

Aicila: in that process. Well that's awesome. So for folks that are listening and they wanna learn more, follow you, get in touch, what's the best way for them to do that?

David: Yeah. Well, first of all, you get the book on Amazon.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: It's, uh, available in Kindle also. Um, [00:29:00] and also I have a website, uh, Hollywood script writing.com.

Aicila: Mm-hmm.

David: People can reach me there,

Aicila: Awesome.

David: so,

Aicila: Lovely.

David: all right, and if you want therapy, uh,

Aicila: Is that the it you on Hollywood? Scriptwriting do com to you?

David: I also have a different website called, uh, david silverman l mft com.

Aicila: Nice. Lovely. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your experience. I really appreciate it.

David: Okay. Thank you for having me all.

I really appreciate David sharing some of the things that helped him get to where he is, and I hope it helps you. If you want more, visit Hollywood script writing.com to connect with David or grab his book.

Next week, join me as I talk about the difference between focusing on your goal and fixating on an outcome.

Thank you for tuning in to business as unusual. Remember, in this ever evolving world of modern business, it's not about fitting in.[00:30:00]

It's about standing out. See you next time. Stay curious, stay innovative, and always keep it unusual.