Cultural Physics with Evante Daniels
[00:00:00] Welcome to Business as Unusual. In today's episode, we delve into the fascinating world of cultural physics with guest Evante Daniels. Daniels is a strategist and author exploring how media culture and technology shape power and perception in business and society. You'll learn by understanding the nuances of culture is crucial for authentic leadership. Tips for designing inclusive events in workplaces and how decoding cultural signals can give your organization a real edge.
Stick around for actionable insights that will help you communicate, connect, and lead more effectively in today's complex world.
Aicila: Welcome to the show, Evante
Evante: Thank you so much for having me.
Aicila: I have been looking forward to this for I think at least a month, so this is gonna be fantastic. those of you who don't know who Evante is. He is a cultural physicist, strategist and author whose work investigates how media technologies shape cultural [00:01:00] perception and collective consciousness at scale. He's worked over 15 years advising global brands like Apple, Adidas, and ServiceNow.
I've heard at least of two of those. So I'm
Evante: I love it.
Aicila: good right
Evante: Yeah.
Aicila: Also worked with political campaigns, multinational organizations, and White House secured advisors. Right? So you're definitely someone we wanna know. Daniels brings or he brings a systems level clarity to the intersections of cultural culture, technology, and power. Which feels very interesting and needed at this time.
Evante: Hmm.
Aicila: you for joining me,
Evante: Like I said before, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be in this which, which two brands did you know out of the three?
Aicila: Apple and Adidas.
Evante: fair. That's fair. Most people, I would say most people don't know ServiceNow, nor do they need to. It's a large company, but it's mostly like B2B business to stuff.
Aicila: Yeah. I vaguely feel like I've heard their name, but.
Evante: You've probably seen it like on a polo or like [00:02:00] something like that, you know?
Aicila: I vaguely feel like I've read their name on a polo. I think that is the best
Evante: That's, you know, sometimes I'm like, yo, if you don't know where they belong in the corporate world, you've read it on a polo or, or a three, or, or trifold brochure.
Aicila: Oh my goodness. Trifold brochures. We're in a paperless society though.
Evante: Well, you know, in the big cities, you still go to some places. You, you better have your business card in Trifolds Ready?
Aicila: Well, I, I mean, actually. Yeah, I, I'm a, I'm a tactile person and I also dislike waste and I dislike carrying things around, so I feel like I'm in this constant tension between I should have something physical to give out
Evante: Well, I mean, you know, we're gonna talk about cultural physics. I feel like this is the best way to start into it, is a great example of cultural fluency is what you bring to the conference or how you exchange information. When I was in Atlanta growing up, that's when Instagram was really blowing up and so the question was always, what's your ig?
That's how we connected with everybody. When I got to [00:03:00] Louisiana, surprisingly, Facebook was the, the number one platform, and it blew my mind that like in the 2010s and 2015, like I'm on Facebook more actively than I am other platforms, and then I moved out to San Francisco. And I thought I was gonna go back to the Instagram question and instead I get the LinkedIn question,
Aicila: Hmm.
Evante: right, well, what's your LinkedIn?
And so, you know, I've had those pieces. And then depending on where that conference is, depending on who's gonna be at a conference, who's gonna beat an event. Uh, I bring paper, right? Like if I know I'm going to an event and I'm gonna see people who, who may be older than me, who may be from a generation or two, like beyond me, and so, you know, they don't want to scan their phone, then I just have like a few business cards on me just because that's the language that they receive it in.
And that's one of the biggest things about cultural intelligence and cultural fluency, is that you have to understand how that piece of communication's gonna be received specifically by that person.
Aicila: Yeah. [00:04:00] Yeah. I've, I used to do fundraising and I felt, and, and I do contract work, so.
Evante: Hmm.
Aicila: Really understanding upfront how people like to be communicated with is a huge part of making sure that the project goes well or they feel good about their, their donation efforts. 'cause they, they wanna know, they're being seen
Evante: Yeah,
Aicila: a, as a human in the, in the process and not being treated like a. You know, block or something,
Evante: absolutely.
Aicila: piece. And there's something about just that very simple thing of do you prefer a text or email, phone calls, house visits. Those are harder. Uh, we have to, we have to work, we have to work that into the budget. And I, I, I really feel that that's a, a really, uh, interesting, um, too around like the tactileness being very cultural. So cultural physics, and I'm curious, I don't know if you wanna break down a little bit. This concept of that there's sort of the, this thing that you do, you bring systems level clarity to the intersections of culture, [00:05:00] technology, and
Evante: Mm-hmm.
Aicila: It, that, that feels to me like there's some some juice there. And
Evante: Sure.
Aicila: we could go right into just kind of giving an overview of what cultural physics is.
It sort of seems like maybe they're related.
Evante: Yeah, they are. I would say they are related. So my work usually has started in, in media. I started off as a, a production assistant when I was like 11 years old and just never stopped working in production, design, video, audio, all of those kind of pieces. So after a while you become a media analyst because you just continue to be around these pieces.
You see how. Certain lighting affects the mood and how if we turn the levels this way, it does this thing to have the, you know, the listeners feeling about it. And so those become secondhand language and at the same time you learn, especially 'cause I learned in live scenarios. It was mostly working live events that authority and the way that you handled yourself in front of a microphone or in front of a camera was very closely related.[00:06:00]
And so there were people who had titles who would seem very serious in, in their title, and they'd get in front of camera and they'd break down. And suddenly it wouldn't matter how serious of a role it was, they just, it just didn't feel like they really had that much weight behind what they were doing.
And then someone else would come on the scene. And you know, they dominate absolutely. They knew how to run the charisma. The they talk directly into the camera, do all of those things, or learn exactly when not to talk directly into the camera. And so, you know, they're playing with these pieces and we'd be like, oh my goodness, that's the person who that, that's the boss right there.
And so knowing that, that's how we were also reflecting that to our audiences, to our viewers. Who are watching this, they're, they're getting the same feeling that regardless of this title, the way that we're showing up changes how people perceive power changes, how people perceive a lot of these things.
And so I started diving into politics from a media analysis side and saying, well, how has this [00:07:00] impacted. You know, elections throughout the years, and there's the famous Kennedy election where him being on TV had a huge factor in how he won the presidency because. He was stronger as a face rather than as a voice.
And so we have these different moments in history where media's influenced it. That became a larger study. And then learning how to use those strategically, um, to do the same thing, whether it was for a marketing campaign. Or, uh, or an election campaign or just a grassroots movement who's trying to, you know, get their neighborhood cleaned up.
A lot of it comes down to trifolds and, and business cards and knocking on doors and those pieces, but the same way that we have to present ourself on video and a lot of the same stuff. And so I've quickly found myself in this really weird intersection, whereas culture would form, it would form through media.
And the most powerful forms of media would really rise to the top. And whatever they took with them would kind of go with it. If that was video, that [00:08:00] was audio, whatever allowed for the most amount of communication would suddenly become this huge thing. Like right now we're seeing TikTok and, um, you know, short texts like on on X or Twitter, um, or even on Reddit, right?
Where our, our images are these pieces that suddenly become extremely. Vital to the way we communicate as people. And so as those pieces trade, we trade ideas, we trade perspectives, we trade conversation points, and through that, if we're all aligned on the same team, if we're all agreeing with the same conversation point, then there's a form of power in that.
There's a form of cohesiveness that happens through even a funny meme that makes us all laugh, right? The fact that we're all laughing. Puts us together. And so that's how I ended up at this really interesting intersection where I'm like looking at culture, looking at what culture does through media and how that influences power.
Aicila: I love that. I, I have a question that [00:09:00] might be a little, uh, what, what do you call it? A, a side
Evante: Sure.
Aicila: quest, but it, it, so I've been taking this class with two of my friends, and they're both women We, one of the sections, it's on speaking, public speaking, it's, we do it virtually together. And one of the sections was talking about the importance of executive presence.
Evante: Mm.
Aicila: the person who was teaching it was a male bodied, right? And the three of us were talking, and one of the women that I'm taking with as a black woman. And we were talking about how as women and as a black woman having quote unquote executive presence had some, uh. Pitfalls,
Evante: Yeah.
Aicila: And
Evante: Yeah.
Aicila: curious, like, so you were talking about the microphone and I, I, I immediately sort of had this moment of, of reflecting on the many times that I've been in that position and having to how I show up and, and that quote unquote executive
Evante: Yeah.
Aicila: awareness that my, the perception of me in [00:10:00] that particular embodiment and then adding a racial component.
So I'm just. know if you have any
Evante: absolutely.
Aicila: or anything you could break down on that because it's something that we, we've talked about in our group, and I don't think we're the only women who have.
Evante: No. So you're talking about this really interesting phenomenon. The the, the first time I ever read about it was from W bta boy, uh, it pops up in James Baldwin. Well, it's called Dual Consciousness. It's the understanding of who you actually are as well as who you are being perceived as. In that moment, right?
When we talk about things like executive power or or, or certain communication frameworks, right? It's saying regardless of environment, come in, do X, you'll get Y, and that'll make everybody feel the same way. And we learn, especially as minorities coming into the workplace, that that is not how those frameworks work.
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Evante: There are a couple of different things that have happened, right? If it say, if it comes from a, uh, a white dude who, who was [00:11:00] at, at an Ivy League college and he was the one who came up with this framework and he's speaking to white counterparts who are also from an Ivy League college who live in the same city, who grew up in the same environment, then that framework may be actually pretty effective.
We're talking about a stable environment. We're talking about no cultural differences realistically, you know, on a bigger surface. But say if you bring in a kid from Atlanta like myself, who didn't go to an Ivy League school, and you give them the exact same tool and have them speak to the same audience, they're gonna be things that don't come across the same way just because of the language that I grew up speaking, the way that I hold myself, how I dress, all of these other things that make up all of these signs, you know, visual, you know, auditory.
Even an olfactory, right, of things that we smell and sense and all of those pieces come together, and that means that while the cognitive, the thinking side of that framework may be exactly the same, the way that it's being delivered in a very felt sense, the way that I'm talking, the way that I'm showing [00:12:00] up is a drastic change.
And because they aren't used to receiving it from me with that kind of thought process together, it can cause some frustration.
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Evante: Yeah. And we've seen this plenty of times before. A woman has a great idea at the field, says something and it rubs somebody the wrong way and they end up saying it themselves and taking the credit for it, right?
Like this is, this is one of those things, and this part of it is in is inherent and intentional. But another part, and this is the part that we learned through culture, is that it also just comes from our nervous systems.
Aicila: Mm.
Evante: That we are literally hearing sound waves in an environment that we're not used to hearing them in.
Aicila: Yeah,
Evante: And you know that while it doesn't excuse actions, what it does say is that we need to pay attention to the environments that we're exposed to, right? To the things that we hear. To be able to see like, okay, does that framework work universally? Does it work for all these groups? Where do the [00:13:00] limitations to it?
You know, rather than just saying, well, it worked for me.
Aicila: Right. Well, and that came up for me when you were describing that is also a, my experiences, most of us are keyed into. I hate the word authenticity, but
Evante: Hmm.
Aicila: like that feeling of alignment, like when somebody is cognitively, cognitively dissonant with themselves, I, I do feel like that we, we project that a little bit and I think the more you've had to sort of cause play, if you will, in these different environments, you get better and better at hiding that cognitive dissonance.
Evante: sure.
Aicila: think that's always at play. And so when somebody shows up and they are, They're almost in that space with themselves trying to follow the script that isn't theirs. Use the language that doesn't belong to them because showing up as themselves has other consequences. I wonder how much of that impacts the, the reception as well.
Evante: It's a drastic impact. I mean, there are a ton of factors that we're talking about in a singular [00:14:00] conversation. If we're just talking on a one-on-one level, much less a one to few right, or one to many, but we're all coming with different perspectives. We're all coming with different places of things that we're used to.
Things that our bodies are are naturally accustomed to. You know, we're talking about weather earlier. While I'm getting accustomed to San Francisco 60 degree summers, I still remember Dog Day Summers in, in Georgia and, and Louisiana where, you know, it was the same time of year, but it was 90 degrees outside.
And so, you know, we all have those unique experiences that shape the way that our, that we understand what's going on around us. Us. Right? And so that means that one, we have to create the space to understand that stuff, even from just a scientific level to say like, Hey, look, we're not just going to use, you know, this high level jargon because it, it logically makes sense.
We're gonna use the things that most of the people in the audience are gonna understand, uh, because we're speaking to multiple people from multiple places. But we know this is a common thread [00:15:00] here. And that changes the way that we look at communication. That changes the way that we look at experiences.
Aicila: Yeah, do. And I know that, that this may be an unfair question. Do you have any like tips that you share with companies or groups around how to help facilitate. Uh, uh, that I don't know what is like, uh, an ease around or, I don't know.
I'm, I'm asking this question very badly. Do you understand what I'm asking?
Evante: Are you, let me see if I can rephrase it. Are you asking if there are any tips that I can give to people who are trying to understand, navigating those scenarios where maybe that language or there's something going on that's making that kind of barrier? Um
Aicila: for the person
Evante: mm-hmm.
Aicila: the, the people? Like if I, if I am putting on an event or a situation and I know. There's a, a cross section of folks. 'cause that would be obviously my desire coming. And, and they might have, I don't know, but they might come with an assumption that they need to kind of show up in a certain way that isn't them. [00:16:00] Are there ways that I can disrupt that,
Evante: Absolutely.
Aicila: them? 'cause I've tried just saying it in different scenarios and it's just impossible for, they have no reason to believe my words. They don't know
Evante: Sure.
Aicila: So are there ways to actually disrupt their expectation? And then, 'cause we often talk about how. we, as the minority can, can change
Evante: Right?
Aicila: a helpful tip as well. But I'm, I'm especially curious about how people can disrupt the expectation when they are not the minority.
Evante: Sure. Absolutely. So, I mean, let's start with just what makes an experience, what tells people what to expect? We have everything from time, from date, time, and location. So one of the first things we start off with is when is the event being held?
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Evante: The difference between a weekday morning event and a Friday night event are completely different, and those are both vastly different from a Sunday morning event.
It,
Aicila: Right,
Evante: right? Regardless of what comes to mind between those different three time periods, we all have expectations of what those are [00:17:00] gonna be. Even by having the time period around that, it gives a suggestion of what people are gonna think, of what to expect, right? The second part of that is environment.
It's someplace that maybe it looks like a conference room or, or something like that, or it gives off the kind of corporate-y kind of feel. Then people may not want to show up as their true selves or in jeans and t-shirts if they don't necessarily understand what they're walking into,
Aicila: Right.
Evante: right? So we look at things like that, that say, what does this communicate?
What does this naturally tell people where they are? If we wanna invite somebody, say to the beach. On Friday night, we're not gonna expect them to show up in a suit and tie,
Aicila: Right.
Evante: right? Regardless of what we then say for the event, we could say like, yo, it's gonna be a round table conversation outside on the beach that's going to do the exact same program, but in an environment that's completely different from where our expectations lie.
Right? And does that [00:18:00] necessarily change our programming? Sometimes it can make a drastic change depending on the pieces that we need and how we're doing it. Sometimes it strips it down to the bare necessities where it's like, look, we're just gonna sit around in a circle and talk, and we're gonna have food.
I don't know what else is gonna happen. We're gonna hope for the best. Right? And there are times where those adaptations, but it very much comes from designing that as a moment, right? Not saying that we need to have this as a goal, that I need to teach this thing, but saying that I want them to show up.
And feel that this is not a corporate class. So if I don't want it to feel like a corporate class, we can't do it in a place that feels like a classroom.
Aicila: Right. It's an unfair expectation.
Evante: Yeah. Right.
Aicila: That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. I really appreciate that.
Evante: Absolutely. And then, you know, it puts yourself on a a at a disadvantage. 'cause now you're trying to create an authentic experience and you're fighting the room, you're fighting the time, you're fighting the expectations, you're fighting the language. [00:19:00] Sometimes I'll read the, the descriptions people give for their events and I won't tell how, I can't tell how serious it's,
Aicila: mm-hmm.
Evante: and I'm like, look, I, I don't know if I need to like be prepared to cry when I show up for this.
Like, what is the deal? And there are a million ways to say, relax, have a good time.
Aicila: Yeah.
Evante: Right? We can tell people to reflect. We can tell people to enjoy themselves. We can tell people to come kick it. And each one of those pieces of languages reflects a different expectation,
Aicila: Yeah.
Evante: right? And so it's not just about if we're communicating it effectively in the broader sense of like, does this paragraph make sense?
But does this paragraph, does this piece of copy, does this event? Does, you know how we're describing it, the imagery, regardless if it's fancy or not, does it communicate or make someone feel this way?
Aicila: Right.
Evante: Right. And the funny thing is, when you do it that way, your visual standards [00:20:00] change, right? Because it's not only about it looking great, sometimes you need something that looks really bad just to make it feel like a really messy event, because that's what's gonna make people show up the way that they need to show up.
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Evante: So it changes the way that we look at event spaces because suddenly it's like, well, if it's a anti conference, then why aren't we booking a conference space?
Aicila: Right.
Evante: Let's go do something else somewhere else.
Aicila: Yeah.
Evante: Right?
Aicila: at it. Let's get outta that. That habit of thinking by when changing space can be so helpful in that.
Evante: It's, it's our foundation when we deal with cultural physics is starting with the felt, the, the, the environment around you. Where are you receiving everything that's happening?
Aicila: Yeah. I What do you see as particularly unusual about what you do or how you do it?
Evante: Well, I mean, it's a newish field. It's a new field. There are a lot of things that are unusual about cultural physics, [00:21:00] mainly because there are not a lot of people who study it. There's not a lot there were not a lot of people in our field respectfully, uh. But I'd say the most interesting thing is it turns every moment into a teachable moment of how culture works.
Aicila: Mm-hmm.
Evante: down the street and you'll see a bus stop sign. Uh, there's one that has an ad on it right now. It's for some LLM, some AI company out here in San Francisco. And I just remember that the ad is just so, it just looks horrendous to me. It is the worst looking ad I've seen in a very long time, but it's there, right?
And so when you walk by it and you understand cultural physics, you think about how bright that screen is, how that feels to people walking by, how much you can be trained to ignore it, how much you can't be. Um. And it really starts to kind of show you some of the underlying like conversations and stories, how they are actually playing out in real time.
And I think that's probably one of the most [00:22:00] fascinating things about the work is that we can really get to see that stuff.
Aicila: Yeah, it's 'cause you have really fresh eyes on the stuff that it exists. I
Evante: Yeah, absolutely.
Aicila: What does success look like for you?
Evante: As a person, as a business owner, in what context?
Aicila: I mean, whichever one you wanna take it as. I, I think that the two that I could see being, uh, most, uh, supportive of the topic would be either success for you, in terms of, you know, achieving some of these. Goals you might have? Or what are
Evante: Sure.
Aicila: What do those goals look like? Like you started this whole thing, so you probably have some vision for what it would end up, or success for Seeker.
Like
Evante: Sure.
Aicila: does it mean if, if Seeker is, if people are adopting this concept of cultural physics into the workplace, into their lives, into their perspective, what's gonna be different? How is the world gonna be changed or, or people gonna be affected?
Evante: Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, so [00:23:00] personally, you know, in, in being an entrepreneur and starting this business and, and, and all those pieces, success looks like, uh, me having a paycheck. A salary that has a cap to it, and most of the money is going back into the company. That is like my lifelong dream is to be able to make it to that point.
Um, and being able to do so as a Chief Strat, as the Chief Strategy Officer here at Seeker. I would say in the goals for Seeker and really the goals for cultural physics are a little bit larger, uh, cultural physics as we're, as we're teaching it and beginning to share it. Our hope is that it leads to conversations around moments that we were just talking about, where we're actually asking how are we, what are we communicating to people?
How are we communicating it, and what are we genuinely telling people? If we're telling people in a corporate environment show up as yourselves, but they had to wear khakis and a polo shirt to get there, then we're sending two different messages. Um, and we wanna be able to have those conversations because those are the conversations that help us [00:24:00] understand how viable a business is or not.
Aicila: Right.
Evante: So seeker's goal and, and what the, the products that we build are algorithms and proprietary systems that measure what we track in cultural physics
Aicila: Yeah.
Evante: that's understandable for businesses. So if they wanna understand what's going on in cultural volatility, they can call us and we'll run. We have that as a daily number that we can pull out of the cultural volatility of a market or of the country.
They want to understand their own resilience to that volatility. We work with them on those pieces and so we, you know, seekers quickly becoming the Bloomberg of cultural intelligence. We're providing these intelligence tools, we're providing live to terminals to help people understand what's actually shaping if the viability of their organization or of their group or of their community, and what are the things that need to be addressed for them to continue to go forward.
Aicila: That sounds like it would be very, I feel that feels like [00:25:00] success to me. I'm with you. I know how to say I'm on board. Yes, please do that. What advice would you give to your 18-year-old self?
Evante: Oh man. 18. I would tell myself to go put in the work. Go, go like, dive deeper into the paint. Um, there are so many people that you can do apprenticeships with and internships with and just hang out with. That will teach you so much about the world and about what's going on out there. Um, and it's all those conversations that I look back on now that have gotten me to build cultural physics.
And so go to the print shops, go to the, go to the the newspaper, go to the news station and like learn. Sit under those guys, learn how the professionals do, what professionals do. Um, but enjoy it. It's so much fun. Like just, you know, don't worry about what's [00:26:00] considered fun. Just go have fun.
Aicila: Hmm. Yeah. Figure out what your fun
Evante: Yeah.
Aicila: Some of us are sponges. What's something that you're excited about in your business?
Evante: So, um, okay. So. We are just wrapping up our first cohort around cultural physics. We're not just one of those companies that wants to, like, keep all of our knowledge for ourself. We're working to teach that at multiple levels through universities and through professional cohorts.
So we're just wrapping up our first one, uh, for the summer and are getting to prepare our fall cohort, which will be starting, uh, applications will start in August. And we'll be ready, probably opening up in September for the, the first date for that, for that five week cohort on the basics of cultural physics, how to understand how to read culture in real time.
Uh, something that we're seeing our, our, our cohort members are already showing that they can immediately bring into their workplace and immediately start using. So we're excited to have another one of those getting started.[00:27:00]
Aicila: Yeah, it's gonna be amazing. I, I will make sure to put that link in the show notes so people can go sign up or apply, I guess. And that's, yeah, that looks amazing. And for folks that are listening, how do they learn more? Follow you, get in touch.
Evante: So if you wanna learn more about Seeker and what we do, you can visit us online at S-E-E-Q-E r.co. That's seeker with a q.co. Or you can find me on LinkedIn or substack. I'm Avante Daniels, E-V-A-N-T-E. And uh, happy to reach out. Reach out at any time via DM or to grab some time on my calendar. Would love to connect.
Aicila: And that, and I'll have to say that is true. I barely knew Ivanti and he very graciously met up with me and, and, uh, said that he would be up for being on the show. So I really appreciate that. Uh, is there anything else you'd like to add before we say goodbye?
Evante: No. Thank you so much for having me on today.
Aicila: Thank you. It was a real pleasure. Thanks everybody for [00:28:00] listening.
I hope you enjoyed my chat with Evante, a cultural physicist and founder of Seeker. I really enjoyed his deep dive into how media technologies shape culture and power. If you liked what you heard or curious to learn more or connect, check out seeker.co or find Avanti on LinkedIn and Substack. Next week I'm excited to share my chat with Melissa Snow, founder of the Powerful Women Rising Community. She's joining me to talk about how authentic relationship focused networking can empower even the most introverted entrepreneurs to thrive without resorting to salesy tactics.
Thank you for tuning into business as unusual. Remember in this every evolving world of modern business, it's not about fitting in, it's about standing out. See you next time. Stay curious, stay innovative, and always keep it unusual.
